CNN - Lance deHaven-Smith - November 9, 2000

Lance deHaven-Smith on the recount in Florida

(CNN) -- On the second day of the Florida recount, other issues have come to light. Voters in Palm Beach alleged their votes were discounted and demanded a recount. As the votes were steadily tallied, it was unclear how much importance absentee ballots would play in the final results. Experts speculated that the final results in Florida would not be known for days, perhaps, weeks.

Lance deHaven-Smith is a Professor in the Reubin O'D Askew School of Public Administration and Policy at Florida State University and is Associate Director of the Florida Institute of Government. He is the author of 10 books, one of which won the Manning Dauer Prize for scholarship from the University of Florida. As Associate Director of the Florida Institute of Government, Dr. deHaven-Smith works with the state's top leaders and all ten of Florida's public universities to bring research to bear on pressing issues.

Chat Moderator: Welcome, Lance deHaven-Smith, to the CNN chat room.

Lance deHaven-Smith: Hello. I am glad to be here.

Chat Moderator: Will Florida wait for all absentee ballots and oversea ballots to come in and be counted before declaring a winner in the state?

Lance deHaven-Smith: That depends on the margin of victory after the recount. If Gore or Bush were ahead by, say, 10,000 votes, then there would be no need to count the absentees from overseas. If they were less than 10,000 votes, on the other hand, if the race stays very close -- like it is now -- then it may be necessary to wait on the remaining ballots. It all depends on the recount.

Question from BushWon: Is there a deadline for the receipt and counting of oversees ballots in Florida?

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Lance deHaven-Smith: I believe that there is a 10-day-waiting period. That is, the Secretary of State would have to wait until end of business November 17, if the race looks like it is going to be decided by the absentee ballots.

Question from Lindsey: What do you think about the Florida situation?

Lance deHaven-Smith: It is likely to become more controversial rather than less. Florida has 67 supervisors of elections, one in each county. Each one has his or her own method of counting the votes. Some use machines. Some actually do a hand count. Some of the machines use punch cards. Some of the machines use scanners. Given this diversity, questions may be raised, not about vote fraud but about the competence of Florida's election officials.

The situation is further clouded by a confusing ballot in Palm Beach County, which may have given Buchanan several thousand votes that were intended for Gore. The pressure is on everyone to resolve the question of who won, as quickly as possible. But this may lead to additional questions and problems. So I think we are looking at a protracted process.

Question from Hetz: What is going to happen with the 19,000 ballots that were disregarded in Palm Beach County?

Lance deHaven-Smith: I am not sure whether the 19,000 discarded ballots were just from Palm Beach County, or from the entire state. But there were a number of discarded ballots in many counties, because people would mistakenly punch more than one presidential candidate.

Florida has a very large population of Senior Citizens. Statewide, about 19 percent of Floridians are 65 years old or older. In Palm Beach County, the figure is about 25 percent. Seniors are the voters who most frequently had problems. As it stands, the ballots you are talking about would simply be discarded or not counted.

However, a suit has already been filed by three voters in Palm Beach County who say that the election did not reflect the will of the electorate. This is the standard that would have to be met for a new election to be held in Palm Beach County or statewide.

This standard is usually thought to be very difficult to meet. But in the case of this presidential election, it may be less difficult to meet because the election was so close. If a few votes either way could change the outcome, then a judge might say that a new vote is required.

Question from Curtis: Where are the votes that have been gained by both sides coming from? Overseas or miscounted ballots?

Lance deHaven-Smith: They are coming from miscounted ballots. In Duval County, the system used involves punching holes in the ballot, and sometimes the holes are not fully punched out. When these ballots were subsequently re-fed into the counting machine, the act of feeding them caused the holes to grow a little larger and the ballots to be counted.

I am not explaining this as clearly as I should. When I say that a hole had to be punched in, it was really that there is a perforation around a circle next to each candidate's name, and this perforated area must be pushed all of the way out. So some voters pushed in the perforated area, but not to the point that the tab came all of the way out.

Question from DeeDee1: We have a very clear computerized touch ballot system in my county, why isn't this standard everywhere?

Lance deHaven-Smith: Very good question. In my view, Florida will probably standardize its system now that these problems have arisen in such a public and embarrassing way.

The reason that each county has its own procedures actually goes back to the 1880s, when, ironically, after the disputed election of 1876, federal troops were withdrawn from the South.

Florida wanted to go back to racial aparthide, and it did this by disbursing power in local elected officials. Florida still has at the county level a separately elected property appraiser, sheriff, clerk of the courts, county commission and two other offices.

The supervisor of elections in each county gets its budget from the county commission. The county commissions often refuse to give the election supervisors, a budget increase sufficient to modernize the equipment. After all, the commissioners answer to the voters on taxes, but not on the performance of elections. It is a horse and buggy election system in a modern urban state.

State politicians have been terribly remiss in not reforming the system. But you must understand that at the local level, these elected officials such as the sheriff and the supervisors of elections have a strong political base from their years in office, and their ability to award contracts and grant other benefits.

It is horrifying to see the outcome of a national presidential election hinge on this long outmoded system, and even more upsetting to know that the system was put in place for evil purposes.

Question from Kenny: What do you think are the chances of a new vote in the county in question or possibly the state of Florida?

Lance deHaven-Smith: I think the possibility of a new vote in Palm Beach county is at least 50-50. There are only three hundred voters in Palm Beach County who are registered with the Reform Party. However, the Reform Party candidate, Buchanan, received over 3,000 votes in Palm Beach County, many more than any other county in Florida, even though it is a heavily Democratic county. Also, many of the Buchanan votes show up in precincts with large Jewish populations.

Now, these are survivors of the Holocaust. It is unthinkable that they would vote for Buchanan. In short, there is a good deal of evidence to support the claim that the Florida election -- especially in Palm Beach County -- did not reflect the will of the people, which, as I said earlier, is the test that must be met for a new election to be required.

Chat Moderator: Thank you Lance deHaven-Smith for joining us today to discuss the Florida recount.

Lance deHaven-Smith: Goodbye. I thought your questions were right to the key issues. Thank you.

Lance deHaven-Smith joined the chat from Florida. CNN.com provided a typist for him. The above is an edited transcript of the chat, which took place on Thursday, November 9, 2000.

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Bush maintains slim lead over Gore as Florida count continues
11/9/00

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